“It’s all gas, no brakes.” For David Hogg, a vice chair of the Democratic National Committee, there’s little time away from politics right now, especially considering his $20 million campaign to disrupt his own party.
Hogg, a survivor of the 2018 mass shooting in Parkland, Florida, and gun control advocate, is looking to oust what he calls “asleep at the wheel” incumbents in primaries around the US through his political action committee, Leaders We Deserve. It’s a strategy that has won him admirers and detractors, especially from the Democratic establishment, who say he shouldn’t be meddling in primaries, considering he’s now a party boss. So far, Hogg isn’t backing down. But he argues that it might get him kicked out of the DNC altogether. The party is set to vote June 9 to decide whether to redo Hogg’s election.
Just seven years ago, Hogg was a high school senior in Parkland, taking speech and debate classes and prepping for college. But all that changed when a former student entered his school and committed the largest mass shooting at a US high school. Hogg quickly co-founded the student-led organization March For Our Lives and became one of the nation’s most prominent gun control activists. Today, he’s the first member of Gen Z to be a vice chair at the DNC and, through Leaders We Deserve, is aggressively challenging the party’s status quo to generate “an attitudinal shift.”
“What we’re trying to do is say, across the board, Democrats need to stand up and fight harder,” says Hogg, whose PAC is trying to recruit a fresh slate of young candidates. “And if there’s somebody that feels nervous about potentially being challenged as a member of Congress, they should ask themselves why that is ultimately.”
On this week’s More To The Story, Hogg discusses why he’s ruled out running for office himself and how the anger he felt after the shooting in Parkland still drives him today.
Correction: A previous version of this article incorrectly stated that the Parkland shooter entered the same building as David Hogg. The shooter entered an adjacent school building.
Credits
Producer: Josh Sanburn | Editor: Kara McGuirk-Allison | Theme music: Fernando Arruda and Jim Briggs | Digital producer: Nikki Frick | Interim executive producers: Brett Myers and Taki Telonidis | Executive editor: James West | Host: Al Letson
Dig Deeper
Listen: Lessons From a Mass Shooter’s Mother (Reveal)
Read: DC’s Sole Congressional Rep Is Too Old to Drive. Can She Defend the City From a Hostile GOP? (Mother Jones)
Read: How Bernie Sanders’ Campaign Manager Would Rebuild the DNC (Mother Jones)
Transcript
More To The Story transcripts are produced by a third-party transcription service and may contain errors. Please be aware that the official record for More To The Story is the audio.
| David Hogg: | Sometimes it is not a matter of just messaging, as we’ve said for the past 15 years in the Democratic Party. It is a matter of the messengers, and that’s what we’re trying to do is say across the board, Democrats need to stand up and fight harder, and if there’s somebody that feels nervous about potentially being challenged as a member of Congress, they should ask themselves why that is ultimately, because we all need to step up to the plate to do more here. |
| Al Letson: | Coming up on this week’s More to the Story, we dive into the fight over the future of the Democratic Party. I sit down with gun control activist and party leader, David Hogg. He discusses his efforts to oust what he says are ineffective democratic legislators and why that could get him kicked out of the Democratic National Committee. Stay with us. This is More to the Story. I’m Al Letson. Seven years ago, David Hogg was just another high school senior in Parkland, Florida taking speech and debate classes and prepping for college, but that changed dramatically when a former student entered his school and committed the deadliest mass shooting at a high school in U.S. history. David and other Parkland survivors soon became prominent gun control advocates. Today, David is a vice chair at the Democratic National Committee, and the first member of Gen Z to hold that job. But some in the party are attacking his recent efforts. He’s trying to recruit young candidates to challenge incumbent Democrats across the country and now those efforts could lead to his own ousting. Here’s DNC chair Ken Martin discussing this in April on CNN. |
| Ken Martin: | No DNC officer should ever attempt to influence the outcome of a primary election, whether on behalf of an incumbent or a challenger. While certainly I understand what he’s trying to do, as I’ve said to him, “If you want to challenge incumbents, you’re more than free to do that, but just not as an officer of the DNC.” |
| Al Letson: | David, how are you doing man? |
| David Hogg: | Making friends like usual, how about you? |
| Al Letson: | You paused right there. What’s going on? |
| David Hogg: | We’re just busy. I’m on 24/7. There are no breaks. It’s all gas, no brakes and it’s just nonstop. |
| Al Letson: | It seems like the Democratic Party is looking for a path forward after losing the last election and you’re making a generational argument about the future of the party. Make that case for me. |
| David Hogg: | It’s a bit more nuanced than just saying all the older people need to go and all the younger people need to come in. There’s great older people that are out there. There’s people like Jim Clyburn as well, who’ve had incredible legacies to help people like Barack Obama come into power and so many others. There’s young people who suck, right? It’s not as simple as saying, “If you’re above a certain age, you shouldn’t be there.” I wish it was my job would be a lot easier if that were the case. Just recently we saw the cuts to… The largest cuts to Medicaid in American history go through the house. That in part was likely helped by the fact that vulnerable Republicans didn’t need to vote on it, because several of our members have died since the election. That’s incredibly sad, of course, but the reality is now millions of people could pay the price for that, because there are Republican governors that are in control of when those special elections happen, and that is just unacceptable. |
| But it’s also just more than anything about addressing the fact that we lost voting share with every single demographic basically last election cycle. Sometimes it is not a matter of just messaging, as we’ve said for the past 15 years in the Democratic Party, it is a matter of the messengers, and that’s what we’re trying to do is say across the board, Democrats need to stand up and fight harder, and if there’s somebody that feels nervous about potentially being challenged as a member of Congress, they should ask themselves why that is ultimately, because we all need to step up to the plate to do more here. | |
| Al Letson: | So your pack leaders we deserve is spending 20 million to oust asleep at the wheel of Democrats and primaries. What kind of candidate are you looking for to lead the party and what kind of legislators are you targeting? |
| David Hogg: | So part of where that $20 million is going is to primary challengers in safe democratic seats that do not risk us losing the house at all. We’re not looking to challenge somebody, even though there’s many Democrats that I don’t agree with in purple seats in the way that they stand on guns. We’re not looking to challenge somebody like that, because we don’t want to risk us losing the house, but what we are looking for is if there’s a Democrat in say a D plus nine seat or more that is safely democratic to the point that almost certainly no matter who is elected in the primary, it’s going to be a Democrat that wins the general election. What we’re looking for is who is out there that we can challenge with an incredible young person that is a truly generational leader, but we’re not just focused on challenging incumbent Democrats. We’re also focused on state legislatures in order to help break Republican majorities there and also helping in competitive races where there are young people running to the U.S. house as well to help us gain a majority. |
| So part of what we’re doing is challenging Democrats in safer seats in Congress, but we’re also focused on purple seats to help Democrats win there and in our state legislative seats as well. And an example of the type of person that we’re looking to elect is somebody like Senator Robert Peters in Illinois. He also has lived experience that far too many members of Congress only pretend to know. He knows the consequences of the failures of our political system and knows what it is like to stand up directly to fight back against it. It’s not as simple as saying, “Here’s just a checklist of the three things that you need to do in order to not be challenged.” | |
| What we’re trying to generate here is an attitudinal shift in the Democratic Party where everybody says to themselves, “What can I do to stand up more? Because I know that even if I’m in a safe seat that I’m going to be held accountable, that I’m being looked at. If I don’t meet this moment in the way that I constituents feel I should, I could be voted out.” And all we’re trying to do here is we’re not deciding elections, we’re giving people options, ultimately. | |
| Al Letson: | Let me ask you this. This is a little bit of a hard question, and I’ve seen you in different places and you’ve moved around this question very adeptly. Who are you talking about? What candidate? Tell me who is the poster child for exactly what you’re talking about? Who is the ineffectual democratic legislator that you think, “You got to go”? I feel like we’re talking and as much as I’ve seen you talk about this, we talk about this mythical figure, but we never brass tacks. Let’s hear it. Who are you targeting? |
| David Hogg: | We are intentionally not saying that right now because we want everybody to be put on notice, right? Because $20 million is that a lot of money? Sure. But ultimately that is not nearly enough in order to create the amount of shift that we want. |
| Al Letson: | Yeah, David, but you could give me a couple. You could give me a couple. You could make a lot of people feel uncomfortable right now if it’s more than just… Because right now I hear you saying this, I understand what the drive is, but when you don’t name specifics, it feels more of the same old same from the Democratic Party, which is speak in generalities but not drill down and actually say what you mean. |
| David Hogg: | Trust me, you are going to see what we mean very soon, and I’m happy to come back on and talk about it then, but one of the things that we have to deal with here is look, we’re not just here to support any young person who’s running. We need to see are these young people actually ready to be members of Congress? We have a whole list of districts that we’re looking at targeting out there. One of the things we’re looking at is this member going to retire? We’re also looking at is the young person that we’re potentially going to support there actually going to be a good member of Congress? |
| Like I’ve said, there’s plenty of young people. What we’re doing is an intensive vetting process with our candidates and potential candidates throughout this time period while also building up pressure and anxiety and anticipation of who it could be that’s out there, because the second we announce, “Oh, it’s just going to be these five or six candidates that are out there that we’re going to be challenging,” it takes the pressure off of everybody else, and what we’re trying to do here is generate a shift across all of our democratic members of Congress to feel like they’re put on notice and feel like their ass is on a line and that we are lighting a fire under that. And if we only do it to five of them, that’s not going to be good enough. | |
| Al Letson: | Do you worry that this approach though is going to harm the party in the sense that the party is getting involved with arguing with itself instead of focused on attacking the opposition? I think a lot of people feel like the America that we know and love is slipping away. Is it the time to actually fight within the party, regardless of what you’re trying to accomplish? The question being is now the time for this type of fight? |
| David Hogg: | Well, my question would be if not now, when is that time? Because ultimately we saw in the last election, I don’t think there’s any better evidence of the necessity of doing something like this than the fact that despite the fact that people know what Donald Trump has done, despite the fact that we had as much success as we had as Democrats in many senses legislatively, we still had the same result that we had in this past election. And that wasn’t because we didn’t have enough money to spend on the election. It wasn’t because we didn’t have enough data. Ultimately it’s because voters didn’t believe that we were fighting for them. And ultimately, if we are going to defeat Donald Trump, it’s not just going to be taking him down in court. It is going to be massively delegitimizing him by giving people the best alternative possible to vote for, where voters feel like they’re voting for the best option and not just the less bad of two options ultimately. |
| And that’s what we’re trying to do, because I think we can and should do both. I think this actually helps to strengthen our party. Imagine if we didn’t have AOC right now, who famously challenged a Democrat. I think competition makes us stronger and I want to make sure that come 2026 when we make a Kim Jeffries, the speaker of the house, that he has the best team possible to go out there and fight back against Donald Trump and show the American people what Democrats represent, that is not simply just saying that we’re not Donald Trump in the first place. I think the challenge that we have right now is it doesn’t feel like we have a real vision other than to say what we aren’t right, that we’re not Donald Trump. I think what we need to be talking about is what are we doing to inspire the American people to imagine what is possible when we do use our power for good? Right? | |
| When Barack Obama was running for president, his message was not, “We can’t,” right? But increasingly I think that’s what people feel like Democrats represented just saying why we can’t do things. What he talked about was the power of inspiration and believing in something bigger than yourself and what this country could be and what this country can represent, and that’s what resulted in things like the Affordable Care Act getting passed, right? That’s resulted in so many of the most prolific pieces of legislation that we’ve passed in our history is by Democrats being bold and courageous in the same way that I would say a lot of the young people after Parkland were, saying what we truly believed in and what needed to happen to successfully address gun violence or at least significantly reduce it in Florida instead of just being like, “Well, we’re going to take this piecemeal, very incrementalist approach over and over and over again,” when people are really in danger and suffering. | |
| Al Letson: | So I think it’s a bit of an understatement to say that the Democratic establishment has not taken kindly to the moves that you’re making. In fact, they decided to redo the election that brought you and Malcolm Kenyatta into the DNC. You are arguing this is about your strategy with the primaries and getting rid of ineffective legislators, but Kenyatta says this is actually related to a procedural complaint about how the election was carried out. He’s even said you have, and I quote, “A casual relationship with the truth.” So can you walk me through all this? What’s going on here? |
| David Hogg: | Yeah, I mean, look, first and foremost, I respect Malcolm. There’s obviously disagreements that we have. What I’m reiterating when I talk about how this challenge is in part a way to easily remove myself, is that if the DNC traditionally wanted to remove an officer, they would typically need a two-thirds vote in order to do that. There was a complaint that was brought to the DNC about the conduction of the election, and when I talked to members about this in the immediate aftermath of this complaint being filed, the consensus from every single person that I talked to was that this complaint was not going to go forward. It did not have water and it wasn’t going anywhere. Then we made this primary announcement and then all of a sudden this complaint goes forward. |
| For many members that I’ve talked to that are voting on these resolutions that are part of these committees that are moving this forward, they do believe this is a way of removing me with instead of a two thirds majority vote, a simple majority vote, in the first place and saying, “Oh, this isn’t about any primary challenges. This is just about a technicality that happened in the election.” It is extremely convenient timing for the Democratic establishment. And I think regardless of what one thinks about this, it’s impossible to ignore the broader context of what was going on here with this and the convenient opportunity this provides a lot of them. | |
| And I want to reiterate as well my sincere respect for Malcolm and for our chair, Ken Martin. I don’t see these things as personal. I see it as a strategic disagreement about how we move forward as a party here. And everything that I am doing with Leaders We Deserve, currently is not breaking any of the bylaws. And also there’s precedent for that with former vice chairs in the past that have had leadership pats when they were governors or members of Congress that gave to incumbents in primaries previously. And part of my fear is that this rule- | |
| Al Letson: | Let me just follow up on that, because I hear you on that, but you’re also talking about spending $20 million to oust members that you disagree with, and that’s a little bit different from saying that this has happened before people of PACs and so forth and so on. I mean, you are literally targeting members of the Democratic Party with Democratic funds, the people that give to your- |
| David Hogg: | It’s not from the DNC. This money is not coming from the DNC. |
| Al Letson: | No, absolutely. But what I mean is that the people that give to that PAC are giving to a PAC that has democratic leanings. So it’s like you’re using funds to create an inter party war that I’m not saying is not necessary. I’m just saying that that’s the optics of it. |
| David Hogg: | And I understand that people have that perception. Ultimately, I think what we need to show the American people though, is what the hell we are doing to actually dramatically change our party right now. This is a break the glass moment that we are in right now, and what I would say is that this would be very problematic if there was a way that I could have undue influence in these elections. There is not. I have talked to party leadership and I said, “Let’s just say for a second… Let me ask you what undue influence can I have with this position that actually could sway an election? This is a volunteer role. I don’t have access to the donor data, I don’t have access to the voter file. I don’t have access to basically anything other than my title that even remotely could sway these things. So what is the problem here?” And they say, “It’s nothing. It is purely optical.” |
| Al Letson: | Let me ask you, are you worried that this strategy that you’re employing could backfire or actually lead to safe Democrats losing to Republicans? |
| David Hogg: | No, because ultimately I have faith in the primary electorate in deciding the best person possible in order to represent that area. And sometimes it may not be a Leaders We Deserve endurest candidate. That’s fine. And the seats that we’re looking at in the general sense, it is very, very, very, very unlikely that any of them would ever flip, especially if it’s D plus nine or more. But I can’t emphasize enough as well that this isn’t about ideology necessarily. We aren’t looking to just support the candidate that is the furthest to the left by any means. We’re looking to support the candidate that is able to get the most stuff done and best able to represent their district in the first place. |
| Al Letson: | When we come back, David tells me why he’s ruled out running for office himself. |
| David Hogg: | I can be so much more useful to the strength of this party and the gun safety movement by bringing in dozens of young people who have the grit, who have the determination, who have the will, who want to fight, who want to win, who have the right values, but just don’t have the resources or advice to get elected. |
| Al Letson: | But before we get to that, we are a few months into our new show, and I think it’s time. I think it’s time that we make it Facebook official. I mean, come on, we go together, tell your friends about us. Look, you and I both know public media is under threat, but we’re still here, reporting stories that are important to you. So feel free to give us a rating and a review and help others discover this award-winning reporting you get from Reveal every week. All right, you got that? I mean, come on, we’re together. Just let people know. Okay, more David Hogg coming up. This is More to the Story. I’m Al Letson and I’m back with gun control activist and DNC vice chair David Hogg. Before you got into this line of work, or at least after the tragedy when you were younger, did you imagine your life what it is now? I.E. Nonstop go, working on policy, being in the DNC, really starting an insurgent movement within the DNC? Did you imagine this to be your life? |
| David Hogg: | Not necessarily by any means. I think that when we started after Parkland, we were so furious and devastated and confident about wanting to make change that we thought that it would take an election cycle or two and it would be done by then, and we’re still here. And every step I’ve taken on that journey since it’s just been figuring out what do we need to do to build the best political system possible in order to take on gun violence. And part of that now includes building the strongest Democratic Party possible to be able to win elections and pass stronger gun laws ultimately. And when I was in high school, I wanted to be a journalist actually. I wanted to hold people in power accountable and I wanted to be like a Mike Wallace where I could scare the shit out of bad politicians basically. But then I realized the best way of doing that was far more than just talking about what’s wrong. It’s about figuring out how to challenge what they really care about, which is their job and finding somebody to replace them. |
| Al Letson: | Just a couple of seconds ago, you said that after Parkland, you were just full of rage, angry. Do you still have that same rage? |
| David Hogg: | In some sense, but I- |
| Al Letson: | I don’t necessarily think that’s a bad thing. I think that fire inside, it drives you towards doing things. So I’m just curious if it’s still there, if it’s still raging? |
| David Hogg: | In some senses for sure. I would say it’s more righteous indignation than anything at what had happened that caused the shooting to happen in the first place, which was the cowardice of our politicians to stand up to a really bad organization that they needed to in order to help make sure that a deranged nineteen-year-old wasn’t able to purchase and continue to own an AR-15. What I think about were all the people after Parkland that said that we couldn’t change gun laws, because it was Florida. What I think about are all the people, the democratic strategists and reported experts that came to us after Parkland that said, you can’t talk about banning the AR-15 because that’s just too unpopular. You can’t talk about taking on the NRA. |
| But we did the opposite of that. We talked about banning assault weapons. We talked about taking on the NRA, and the result was we got politicians in a Republican trifecta state on the defense, and we passed the red flag law and we raised the age to buy a gun to 21 as well. And those laws have been proven so effective and so popular, that even with a even bigger Republican supermajority, Republicans have not been able to repeal those gun laws in Florida. | |
| Al Letson: | So it’s been seven years since the shooting. Can you tell me how you got from Stoneman Douglas High School to the DNC? |
| David Hogg: | So after Parkland, we obviously had one of the largest student protests in American history, the March for Our Lives that had over 800,000 people march with us in D.C., with over 800 sister marches around the country to demand action on gun violence. We ran around the country as well on a bus tour and registered tens of thousands of young people to vote in key districts that were essential to defeating the NRA. And we ended up defeating more NRA-backed incumbents than ever before in American history, one of the largest youth voter turnouts in American history. Eventually though I had to go to college, and while I was in college, frankly, I was struggling a lot. I was struggling because I was dealing with… I felt like I flew into a brick wall a bit because I had been on the road so much, I hadn’t really taken time to process what I had gone through and all the aftermath of the shooting and everything like that. |
| And it got to the point that I was really struggling with my PTSD and the trauma from the shooting while I was in school. And I needed to take a step back from March for our Lives in order to just focus on graduating and for example, passing my full immersion Spanish class, not easy to do as a dyslexic. And going through that, I called up a friend of mine, Maxwell Frost, who had worked with us on one of the tours that we did to register young people to vote and everything. And I asked him if he’d be interested in working for March for our Lives. And he originally turned me down actually, and I called him, I was like, “Maxwell, you don’t understand. I have to pass this Spanish class. I need you to take this job.” And then he took the job and two years went by or so, Maxwell calls me up and he says, “David, I have good news and I have bad news. The good news is I want to run for Congress, and the bad news is I have to leave March for our Lives.” | |
| Maxwell, he was 24 years old at the time. Maxwell, when he was elected, the first bill he introduced was to create the Office of Gun Violence Prevention. That helped to put pressure on the White House to create the office. And then within a year of Maxwell getting elected, I found myself sitting in the White House in the Rose Garden with the President of the United States being introduced by Congressman Maxwell Frost for the announcement of the creation of the Office of Gun Violence Prevention. After Maxwell’s elected. I said, “This is great, but we need way more people like Maxwell to get out there.” And I’d called up as campaign manager and we talked about what that could look like, and we ended up creating Leaders We Deserve to be like Emily’s list for young Democrats running for state legislatures in Congress where we worked predominantly in state legislatures to support young people running. | |
| And then I was at a DNC executive committee meeting after the election and I was just as a member of the public attending it, hearing what they were saying, and the first thing that they brought up was 18 to 29-year-old voters being a reason why we lost the election. And I looked at the entire committee and I didn’t see a single person under, I think 30 or probably 40, on there to be honest with you. And I saw an opportunity for myself to be part of the change that I wanted to see. I decided to throw my hat in the ring to run for vice chair, because I wanted to tell people what I felt like they needed to hear and not just what they to hear. | |
| Al Letson: | So you’ve previously said that you would run for the house when you turned 25. You’re 25. Is that still the plan? And if not, what does the future look like? |
| David Hogg: | So when I was younger, I said that and I realized on Maxwell’s campaign, I can be so much more useful to the strength of this party and the gun safety movement by bringing in dozens of young people who have the grit, who have the determination, who have the will, who want to fight, who want to win, who have the right values, but just don’t have the resources or advice to get elected. So that’s why instead of me running for office myself, I am trying to raise all this money to support great young people getting elected, and also I have to think about for myself, my own real danger that I’m put in because of this. My family got probably a thousand plus death threats after the shooting between online threats, threats in the mail, my house getting swatted and so much more. I need to make sure that we’re building the strongest gun safety movement possible by bringing these young people in where if we don’t get our government to change gun laws, I think we need to change who is in government, and this is part of doing that. |
| Al Letson: | What do you think the democratic message should be right now when trying to reach out to people who are feeling disconnected from politics, but also people who may be looking at what the Trump administration is doing and feeling like, “I didn’t sign on for this”? |
| David Hogg: | I think it needs to be that we are the party of sanity and stability ultimately. That we’re not here to play around with the global economy and these crazy tariffs that he’s been putting on and off all the time. We’re not here to sell you our bullshit cryptocurrency that foreign governments are very, in my view, very likely buying an order to curry favor with Donald Trump. But I think the message needs to be, “What are we doing to one, get the most competent people elected possible in order to build the strongest local governments, state governments, and federal government possible, to actually fight for you and not special interest, but what are we doing to help revive the American dream? What are we going to do to make it easier to build housing? What are we going to do to make it so that we’re addressing healthcare costs? |
| What are we doing to address the enormous challenge that we have right now that is not going to get any easier, which is the fact that there’s a sandwich generation of people that are having to pay astronomical costs for elder care and child care at the same time.” And I don’t have children, but I just lived through the challenge of elder care costs with my father who was in the final month of his life, despite being a Navy helicopter pilot with VA benefits and a medically retired FDI agent, his cost of care was $19,000 a month. I had to make a spreadsheet to figure out how long we could afford to keep my father alive, because both my parents are public servants. | |
| Al Letson: | Yeah. |
| David Hogg: | That is an impossible decision that no American should have to be making. And I think what we need to be talking about is as a party, what are we doing to make it so that Americans do not have to make impossible decisions like that, like choosing between an early death sentence for a loved one, or a lifetime of medical debt. Like choosing between insulin or heat. Like choosing between getting an education or having a lifetime of student debt at the end of the day. Because not only is that not good just for our country overall, those things are terrible for our economy as well. They’re huge sucks on our economy and they’re severely going to cripple us in the 21st century if we do not get it under control right now. And I think what we need to be talking about is what are we doing so that we are here to revive the American dream by fighting back against the special interest that killed it or so many elements of it. |
| And so that you can get by, that you can go in and focus on other things than just how astronomically high your rent is. But that if you work hard enough, we’re going to build a country where you can still get ahead here. And it’s not limited by the fact that your rent is astronomically expensive or because you get sick and you go to the doctor and you have a lifetime of debt after that. But we need a society that sees beyond that, that does grow our economy and makes it fair for all people to get ahead and have a chance, but ultimately make sure that things that are outside of people’s control, like getting a disease, doesn’t mean the end of somebody’s financial life. | |
| Al Letson: | Excellent. David Hogg, thank you so much for coming in to talk to me. |
| David Hogg: | Absolutely. Thank you. |
| Al Letson: | That was gun control advocate and DNC vice chair, David Hogg. If you liked this episode, you should check out the reveal episode, Lessons from a Mass Shooter’s mother. It’s about a shooting that happened four years before Parkland and includes rare insights from the perpetrator’s mother. It’s a riveting account of her work and the missed warning signs that might’ve prevented the shooting. Lastly, just a reminder, we are listener supported. That means listeners like you, you can help us thrive by making a gift today. Just go to revealnews.org/gift. Again, that’s revealnews.org/gift and thank you. This episode was produced by Josh Sanburn and Cara McGurk-Allison. Theme music and engineering help by Fernando Mameño-Arruda and Jay Breezy Mr. Jim Briggs. I’m Al Letson, and you know, let’s do this again next week. This is More to the Story. |