This month, some of the nation’s best and brightest teenage girls will gather in Mobile, Alabama, to embark on two of the most intense weeks of their lives. Everybody wants the same thing: to walk away with a $40,000 college scholarship and the title of Distinguished Young Woman of America.
Reporter Shima Oliaee competed for Nevada when she was a teenager and was invited back as a judge 20 years later. Oliaee accepted, all while recording it for a six-part audio series called The Competition.
In the final days of the 2022 competition, there was news from Washington that had big implications for women across the nation: Roe v. Wade had fallen.
The girls faced a tough decision: Do they speak up about their political beliefs or stay focused on winning the money? And what might this mean for their futures—and their friendships?
“This series changed how I view America,” Oliaee said. “I came away from it thinking, damn. American teen girls are the canaries in the coal mine.”
This week, Reveal is partnering with The Competition podcast, from Wondery, Pineapple Street Studios, and Shirazad Productions, to explore the dreams of young women, America’s promise, and what it takes to survive being a teen girl today.
This is an update of an episode that originally aired in December 2024.
Dig Deeper
Read: Last night, democracy lost (Trust Issues Substack by Katelyn Cai)
Listen: The Competition (Wondery)
Credits
Reporter: Shima Oliaee | Producer: Anayansi Diaz-Cortes | Editor: Taki Telonidis | Production managers: Steven Rascón and Zulema Cobb | Digital producer: Nikki Frick | Score and sound design: Davy Sumner and Sarah Kinsley | Additional music: Jim Briggs and Fernando Arruda | Interim executive producers: Brett Myers and Taki Telonidis | Host: Al Letson | Special thanks: Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios’ Courtney Harrell, Justine Daum, Clare Chambers, Stephanie Ouaknine, Mari Orozco, Maddy Sprung-Keyser, and Davy Sumner
Support for Reveal is provided by the Reva and David Logan Foundation, the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, the Jonathan Logan Family Foundation, the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, the Park Foundation, The Schmidt Family Foundation, the Hellman Foundation, and Reveal listeners.
Transcript
Reveal transcripts are produced by a third-party transcription service and may contain errors. Please be aware that the official record for Reveal’s radio stories is the audio.
| Al Letson: | From the Center for Investigative Reporting and PRX, this is Reveal. I’m Al Letson. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Okay, I’m officially almost late to the airport. |
| Al Letson: | It’s an early summer morning in 2022. Reporter Shima Oliaee is rushing out of her apartment in New York City to get to the airport. |
| Shima Oliaee: | I’m still at home and we’re packing up jewelry on top of all this. I don’t know, man. This is a lot. |
| Hi. That was the 5:00 AM bell. | |
| Al Letson: | She makes it to JFK, but… |
| Shima’s mom: | Hi. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Hey. So I missed my flight. |
| Shima’s mom: | Oh my God. |
| Al Letson: | That’s Shima’s mom. |
| Shima’s mom: | Remember, life sucks and then you die. |
| Al Letson: | Shima needs to make it to Mobile, Alabama where she’ll be attending a competition that’s been around almost 70 years. |
| Newsreel: | From Mobile, Alabama, it’s the America’s Junior Miss Pageant, featuring 50 of the most outstanding young women in the nation. |
| Al Letson: | It used to be called America’s Junior Miss, and for decades, it was carried live on TV. |
| Newsreel: | So have you ever seen 50 brighter smiles in all your life? |
| Al Letson: | Winners got written up in The New York Times, appeared on talk shows, and even went to the White House. |
| Newsreel: | Mr. President, this is Junior Miss Nevada. |
| Hello there. | |
| Hi. | |
| Al Letson: | These days the competition is called Distinguished Young Women or DYW, and at the end of this month, 50 high school seniors, one from each state will compete for scholarship money for college. We aired this story last year, but we’re bringing it back to kick off the summer. Our guide is reporter Shima Oliaee, who is a contestant herself in 2001. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Hi, I’m Shima Oliaee from Reno, Nevada, and I love to swim with my team and family in the beautiful waters of Lake Tahoe. |
| Al Letson: | And in 2022, she was invited back to be a judge. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Okay, so first off, I didn’t know if I wanted to go back because when I was there the first time I lost. And also the program, it’s a little pageanty and I’m a journalist now, I didn’t even know if I wanted anyone to know I did this, but the thought of being able to hear directly from young women at this time felt really important. So I told them, “Yes, I’ll be a judge, but may I send two producers down to record everything behind the scenes?” And luckily they said yes. |
| Al Letson: | But the story she got was not what she expected. In the final days of the competition, there was news from Washington that had big implications for women across the nation. These 50 girls had to make sense of it all with Shima and her team capturing everything in real time. It’s all in a six-part podcast Shima made in collaboration with Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios called The Competition. |
| Shima Oliaee: | This series changed how I view America. I came away from it thinking, “Damn, American teen girls are the canaries in the coal mine.” |
| Al Letson: | Today we’re going to hear what it was like to be in mobile for those two crazy weeks, which started off like any other DYW competition. |
| Speaker 1: | Ladies and gentlemen, welcome on board. Flight four B seven. |
| Al Letson: | The girls arrive at the airport in mobile and immediately size each other up. |
| Amy Pham: | She definitely was someone that all the girls were keeping their eye on. So intimidated. I was like, “Oh my God, there’s a winner right there.” |
| Shima Oliaee: | The first day is really overwhelming for the girls. So you’re coming down the escalators, all these residents in mobile are cheering for you. Press is taking photos every minute. Then you’re shuttled away into this private location for orientation. There’s fittings, girls have to try on their costumes and outfits in front of each other. It’s a vulnerable situation. |
| Speaker 2: | So here’s what I want you to do. I want you to raise your arms up like this. I’m just checking for tummy. That’s all. |
| Amy Pham: | It can be intimidating having to put on an outfit, run into a room, and about four ladies look at you and be like, “This doesn’t fit right.” |
| Speaker 2: | You see no skin? No skin. No skin. No skin, no skin. |
| Al Letson: | As a judge, Shima immerses herself with the girls. |
| Shima Oliaee: | I had to study them in my role as a judge. So it’s 50 teens. They are the best and brightest from across the country. There’s Minnesota, who just one of her dreams is to cure cancer. Pennsylvania, she’s whatever is a couple steps past a black belt in karate. Illinois is a renowned flutist who’s performed with the Chicago Symphony and Colorado should already be on Broadway. It’s intimidating, like a United Nations of teen girls. |
| Amy Pham: | When you come from a small town, it’s so easy to be the best of the best and like, “Oh, I’m cheer captain, I’m senior class president. I’m president of four other things.” But these girls are president of eight other things and they run a business, so it kind of humbles you and opens your eyes to like you’re not always going to be the best of the best. |
| Shima Oliaee: | That’s Tennessee’s contestant, Amy Pham. She’s the daughter of Vietnamese immigrants and wants to become a lawyer. Then you have Kaitlyn Ruch, a ballerina turned politician. |
| Kaitlyn Ruch: | If I am elected, I’ll be the second-youngest legislator in the country. |
| Shima Oliaee: | She’s the Republican nominee up for a seat in the Montana legislature. Then there’s Salma Barragan from New Mexico. On top of getting straight A’s, she’s been working since age 13 to help her mom pay the rent. She wasn’t even supposed to be at nationals, but the winner from her state program couldn’t make it and she was the runner up. |
| What was rehearsal like that first day? | |
| Salma Barragan: | I was overwhelmed. People already knew the choreography or were amazing at it and I was barely getting by. |
| Al Letson: | The girls spent the first seven days getting ready for the formal competition. Every day they get up at dawn and rehearse until the sun sets. They spend every waking hour together, they bond. |
| Speaker 3: | Standby. We’re rolling. One, two, three. |
| Pageant group: | We are made to party. |
| Al Letson: | And then at the start of the second week, things get more serious. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Yeah, it’s at this point where girls really start to feel the pressure. If you don’t know the steps of the fitness routine, you are screwed. |
| Salma Barragan: | I can’t remember the order of anything to save my life. |
| Al Letson: | Towards the end of the two weeks it’s semifinals. The girls have no idea that the big news from Washington is about to turn everything upside down. That’s where we pick up the story with Shima during rehearsal. |
| Speaker 4: | I’m so happy right now. |
| Shima Oliaee: | It’s the second to last day of the competition. |
| Speaker 4: | When I’m feeling tired. Do you know what I guys? I beatbox. |
| Shima Oliaee: | The pressure is really on now. You might expect the girls to be steely and silent, laser focused, but that’s not exactly the vibe in rehearsal. |
| Speaker 5: | So she currently has an Oreo on her face and she’s trying to slide it down to get in her mouth without it dropping to the floor. Open your mouth. Friendships are just at an all-time high. |
| Carol: | You double check if you accidentally brought your phone, you just hand it to your mom and say, “I had a oops.” |
| Shima Oliaee: | Even head mom, Carol, telling them to hand over their cellphones can’t break the vibe. |
| Pageant group: | Why are you so amazing? |
| I want to be you guys. | |
| Don’t want to be you. | |
| Amy Pham: | I can’t speak for everyone else, but for me, anywhere I looked, all of them were my friends. At that point, there wasn’t a state or a girl that I wasn’t comfortable with. |
| Shima Oliaee: | That’s Amy from Tennessee. But tonight it’s the semifinals. The show will begin with 50 possible winners and by the end of the night, that number will be down to eight. Yet, for the moment, they’re all here together rehearsing one last new routine as a group. |
| Speaker 6: | We’re just going to take out the first one of these. Slide, bump-bump. Slide, bump-bump. |
| Shima Oliaee: | In rehearsal, the girls are scattered around the stage, still practicing their closing number. |
| Kaitlyn Ruch: | And so I was sitting on the third row of the bleachers on stage left, and one of our day moms peeks her head out. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Day moms are volunteers who help out. Kaitlyn from Montana sees one of them in the wings. |
| Kaitlyn Ruch: | She goes, “Kaitlyn, is Lydia anywhere? There’s a message for her.” |
| Shima Oliaee: | The mom is searching for Lydia from Kansas. |
| Day mom: | I wouldn’t deliver bad news, but they told me to get to her soon as possible. |
| Kaitlyn Ruch: | And so Lydia ran off-stage into the wing and I can see her reading something off of our day mom’s phone. And then Lydia turns around and gives me two big thumbs up. And I take that as the sign that we got the news we were hoping for. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Kansas runs towards Montana. |
| Kaitlyn Ruch: | So I’m on stage. |
| Speaker 5: | All right, welcome to the Diamond. Five, six, ready, walk. One, two… |
| Kaitlyn Ruch: | And we’re doing our number. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Tennessee’s in the middle of blocking the routine when she sees something going on with Montana and Kansas. |
| Amy Pham: | And then out of the corner of my eye, I see just this big commotion and Kaitlyn Ruch and Lydia are hugging each other. |
| Kaitlyn Ruch: | We’re trying to not be too obnoxious. We’re trying to contain our excitement. |
| Amy Pham: | And then there’s tears. |
| Salma Barragan: | She’s just crying hysterically. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Montana and Kansas are both standing there crying as a few girls look on. |
| Lydia: | I can’t believe it. |
| Speaker 6: | I get off the stage for something and I see Montana sobbing and I’m like, “What is going on?” And Pennsylvania’s trying to comfort her. And I’m like, okay, what is happening right now? |
| Lydia: | Happy, happy, happy news. |
| Kaitlyn Ruch: | Yay. |
| Lydia: | God is very good. God is very, very, very, very, very good. Aww, that’s so sweet. You almost made me cry. |
| Speaker 6: | People were saying that either a friend or family member is cancer-free. And I’m like, “Oh, okay, good. That’s amazing.” |
| Speaker 7: | That’s gorgeous. |
| Speaker 8: | Can I give you a hug? |
| Amy Pham: | And I am just doing my own thing. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Tennessee. |
| Amy Pham: | And then I hear little whispers, people are freaking out. And so now I’m interested. I walk over to a group. I couldn’t even tell you who, and I asked them, “So what are we all freaking out about?” So apparently Lydia- |
| Shima Oliaee: | That’s Kansas. |
| Amy Pham: | … had some type of code that she got sent. |
| Shima Oliaee: | The code, which was supposedly info about their sick friend, was really breaking news. The Supreme Court had just issued their Dobbs V. Jackson decision on abortion rights. |
| Kaitlyn Ruch: | Lydia came up with the code of we’re renaming Roe V. Wade Jennifer. |
| Shima Oliaee: | That’s Montana. |
| Kaitlyn Ruch: | And Jennifer is either going to go to the emergency room if Roe V. Wade didn’t get overturned or Jennifer is cancer-free if Roe V. Wade did get overturned. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Of course Roe V. Wade did get overturned. The mom who was delivering the news must have had no idea about the secret code. |
| Lydia: | Because we know that not everyone believes the same on this very contentious issue. It’s an issue very near and dear to our hearts, so we wanted to know, but in case anyone else felt completely opposite or didn’t want to know, we just wanted to be respectful of everyone here. |
| Kaitlyn Ruch: | Yeah. You put it very nicely. |
| Lydia: | Yes. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Tennessee is taking all this in. |
| Amy Pham: | I was just like, “This is tea. That is wild that it was sent through code.” That was the thing on my mind. |
| Shima Oliaee: | The news starts to spread. |
| Speaker 9: | It was more of a very fast group game of telephone. It just like beep, beep, blah, blah. |
| Kaitlyn Ruch: | I think Lydia might’ve told a couple people and I might’ve told a couple people. |
| Shima Oliaee: | And one of the people Montana told was New Mexico. |
| Salma Barragan: | We’re all very confused on what’s going on, but we don’t want to be too nosy either. But I mean, if you see somebody crying hysterically, you kind of want to know what happened. So I go over to Kaitlyn and I ask her, What’s wrong? And she kind of just tells me, she’s like, “Yes, everything’s fine. Roe V. Wade got overturned,” and she just kind of started crying to me, but happy. So I kind of looked at her and I was like, “Okay, I’m going to go ahead and remove myself from the situation just because I don’t want to do anything I’ll regret.” |
| Shima Oliaee: | Most of the girls still haven’t heard the news. They’re all gathered together in the lobby to meet with a few former national winners. What they call has-beens. |
| Kaitlyn Ruch: | And one of the has-beens gets up in front of us. |
| Shima Oliaee: | 2018’s national winner, Arianne Morrison. |
| Arianne Morrison: | I step up, I introduce myself, and I said, “I also just want to acknowledge that in light of today’s Supreme Court decision, I want you all to know that I’m a resource. I’m a support. I can’t make things better. I can’t offer words of encouragement, but at least I can mourn and be angry with you.” |
| Shima Oliaee: | Which is when it dawns on Arianne that a lot of the girls do not know what she’s talking about. |
| Arianne Morrison: | A lot of girls look at each other and then one girl goes, “What are you talking about? We don’t have our phones.” |
| Shima Oliaee: | Arizona is one of the girls who still has no clue. |
| Arizona: | And I was like, “What Supreme Court decision? What is she talking about?” |
| Shima Oliaee: | Tennessee. |
| Amy Pham: | And I’m looking around and I instantly feel a shift in the room and you could just feel the energy change. |
| Shima Oliaee: | I couldn’t help but think how if any of the girls in that room had not made it to nationals, they would’ve experienced this moment so differently back home with their friends, their families, people who likely felt like they did when they heard the news. Instead, they were trapped in what must have been the only place in America where that day one girl from every state was forced to face this decision together in real time. |
| Al Letson: | Up next, how the Supreme Court decision to overturn Roe V. Wade suddenly changes the dynamics at the competition. |
| Kaitlyn Ruch: | I think it just created a divide that we didn’t know that we had, and it’s going to be pretty tough to work through. |
| Al Letson: | You are listening to Reveal. |
| Al Letson: | From the Center for Investigative Reporting and PRX, this is Reveal. I’m Al Letson. Today we’re bringing back a story from Shima Oliaee, host of the six-part podcast series The Competition. It’s just hours before the 2022 Distinguished Young Women’s Semifinals, in any other year the girls would be laser focused on getting ready. They’d be practicing their routines, memorizing their lines, calming their nerves. But right now, the vibe is off, the girls are distracted. Some are ecstatic, others feel betrayed. Most of them are unable to think about anything but the news that the Supreme Court has just overturned Roe vs Wade. Shima picks up the story. |
| Kaitlyn Ruch (Montana): | I have no idea where the moms are. |
| Shima Oliaee: | That’s Montana. |
| Kaitlyn Ruch: | It was just all sitting in the lobby, processing everything. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Quickly after hearing the news, the girls start splitting up into groups. |
| California: | We got very distinct groups. |
| Shima Oliaee: | California. |
| California: | All the states that were more left leaning, and then the smaller group to the side of … I think those were pretty right leaning and vocal about it. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Picture a big civic center lobby, conservative girls on one side, liberal girls on the other. And in the middle a bunch of girls who feel torn, or don’t know where to go or who to turn to. |
| Maryland: | I come from a really conservative family. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Maryland. |
| Maryland: | Conservative religion, but they always let me have my own opinion, which I’m just grateful for. And I just try and reward everyone else the same respect that my family gave me. |
| Colorado: | They should have just never said it at all. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Colorado is worried about how the added stress is going to weigh on the girls. |
| Colorado: | I didn’t want it to affect people’s mental health, because this was already mentally taxing in the first place and now you’re adding this news on top of it. |
| Maryland: | I think it just created a divide that we didn’t know that we had. It’s going to be pretty tough to work through, especially when emotions are running so high. So I hope that everyone can keep it in, but I don’t know. |
| Shima Oliaee: | The girls now see something in each other, these deeper differences, that they didn’t before. Or at least, they could pretend they didn’t before. |
| California: | It’s something that we avoided. Or at least some of us tried to avoid. |
| Shima Oliaee: | California. |
| California: | Because it’s hard once you start talking about it. You can obviously have those conversations and they’re not charged with violence and anger, but it’s harder to then get back to being friends and happy and good again. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Some of the girls, like Tennessee, were still struggling to understand what the decision even meant, and why so many of the girls were so upset. |
| Amy Pham (Tennessee): | I feel out of the loop. I feel as if everyone knows what’s going on and I don’t. I couldn’t even choose which side I was on. I really just want to know why everyone’s upset so I can comfort them. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Tennessee turns to the girls in the Liberal circle and starts asking questions. |
| Amy Pham: | I was like, “Okay. So what’s happening? What does ‘Overturned’ mean?” What does Roe vs. Wade being overturned mean? |
| Kirtana Raman…: | So have you heard of the Supreme Court- |
| Tennessee: | Yes, but I don’t know what the term “Overturned” … |
| Kirtana Raman…: | It means basically now women have lost all their reproductive rights. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Kirtana Ramanatha from Minnesota starts to explain. |
| Kirtana Raman…: | What it means when something’s overturned, it means that a case came up in Mississippi that said that women cannot have abortions after a certain time period, that went from a state court to the Court of Appeals to the Supreme Court, and they were like, “Mississippi, you’re okay. You can take away women’s rights.” |
| Amy PHam: | And so they’re talking about how terrifying it is and how upsetting it is that they just lost the rights to their body, and so I get it now. I sit there and I’m like, “Oh, yeah. I guess we did just lose the right to that.” |
| Shima Oliaee: | On the other side of the room another girl walks up to the conservative girls and asks Montana to explain the decision. |
| Speaker 10: | So what does this mean? |
| Kaitlyn Ruch: | This means that the Supreme Court has sent the decision of the abortion issue back to each state to decide respectively, which is what our founders intended. |
| Shima Oliaee: | She’s saying it’s now up to each state to decide what to do about abortion, which to her is how it should be. |
| Kaitlyn Ruch: | Yes. Each state will get to choose. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Montana’s politics can’t be separated from her personal story. She and her brother were both adopted. |
| Kaitlyn Ruch: | My family’s very passionately pro-life, just because of everything that we’ve been through as a family. |
| Shima Oliaee: | So were you guys both adopted as infants? |
| Kaitlyn Ruch: | Yes. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Did your parents ever tell you about the process of adopting? |
| Kaitlyn Ruch: | Yeah, they’ve told me a little bit about it. It’s a complicated process, but with the circumstances of my conception and my brother, there’s a very high chance that we could have been one of those babies who never got to live. It’s like our birth mothers made that very selfless decision to give us life that so many other children didn’t get. |
| Shima Oliaee: | She’s part of an organization called Students for Life, whose mission is to, “Recruit, train and mobilize the pro-life generation to abolish abortion.” They supported her campaign for state legislature, and this decision could be a great omen for her upcoming campaign. |
| Kaitlyn Ruch: | I’ve solidified my race in the midterms. Legislators are probably calling me, SFL’s probably calling me because they’re probably going to want to find me. |
| Speaker 11: | You know they are. Fun. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Montana’s saying Students for Life is probably going to fly her from Mobile to DC to celebrate. |
| Kaitlyn Ruch: | I literally would have been there right now if I wasn’t here. I’m a little bit heartbroken, but it’s okay. |
| Shima Oliaee: | On the other side of the room, the mood is grim. The liberal girls start talking about the Supreme Court. How could this have happened in the first place? |
| Amy Pham: | Why don’t they want term limits? The Supreme Court doesn’t want term limits? [inaudible 00:06:07] I know that there was a lot of protests about Roe vs. Wade, and the fact that our Supreme Court saw that and still made their own decision, that’s what scares me. |
| Shima Oliaee: | This is the thing that baffles Tennessee, she knows that the majority of people in the country support the right to choose, that’s the popular opinion. But the court doesn’t seem to care. |
| Amy Pham: | And that just makes you think of what else in the future are they going to ignore in order to make the decisions that they want to make? It’s scary that knowing that we really don’t have a lot of say when it comes to our government, if you think about it. |
| Kirtana Raman…: | One in four women have to face a situation regarding abortion, literally in their lifetime. That’s a crazy statistic. Because for me especially- |
| Shima Oliaee: | That’s Minnesota, the one who was explaining the decision earlier to Tennessee. She’s thought a lot about this. |
| Kirtana Raman…: | There’s 50 of us here, just do the math, what’s one in four? And now put all of those girls at risk for literally dying. Because for me- |
| Shima Oliaee: | By Minnesota’s math, that’s at least 12 of the girls in the lobby. But while she’s mourning that, some girls are still celebrating. |
| Kirtana Raman…: | This girl’s crying from joy in the back, and though I respect people’s opinions, I can’t talk to you today. Please. |
| Katelyn Cai (Arizona): | A lot of the girls were crying, and I’ve never seen any of them cry before. Alabama, Minnesota. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Arizona. |
| Katelyn Cai: | I think I was just numb. I feel like I’m generally a very rational person, and so my first thought is like, “We shouldn’t panic. We haven’t read the actual decision. We don’t know what the perimeters are.” |
| Shima Oliaee: | Arizona was speech and debate captain in high school. She spent six years debating all kinds of controversial topics, so she’s used to having to intellectualize really messy issues. |
| Katelyn Cai: | And I had never really been in that many spaces where emotion was acceptable before. I guess in that moment I realized the power of emotions. I was feeling it so much from the girls around me, and something in me just shifted, and then I burst in tears and couldn’t stop crying. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Back in the lobby, some of the girls are still crying. |
| Day mom: | We have about 30 minutes. If you would like to go upstairs to your dressing rooms and start getting beautiful and more beautiful than you already are. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Time to wipe up the tears and keep going. |
| California: | They’re like, “All right. Back at it, girls.” |
| Shima Oliaee: | California. |
| California: | And I’m like, “What?” I think that it was a very fast turnaround process of hearing it, grappling with it, and then having to be on again. |
| Shima Oliaee: | The girls shuffle out of the lobby and head backstage to put their competition faces back on for the semifinals. It’s just about time to start competing against each other again. |
| California: | We care about the competition, but it’s also like, at the end of the day what are we doing? We’re putting in little balloon dresses and dancing in our heels. I don’t know. It’s just like, “Okay. Got to get back to whatever this is now.” |
| Shima Oliaee: | California and the rest of the girls might do as their told. They’ll go put their makeup and dresses on, but that doesn’t mean they’re about to fall in line and just get on with the show. After a very long day, we’ve arrived at the semifinals. The results from tonight will determine which eight girls will compete in the finale. Here’s how it will work. DYW’s auditors, yeah, they have those guys, like the Oscars, have already tabulated the girls’ scores for scholastics and interviews. So tonight, there’s just fitness, talent and self-expression. |
| Maryland: | Self-expression is that, there is no one’s game. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Two hours before show time, each girl received the question she’ll have to answer on stage. And now they’re obsessively rehearsing their answers. |
| Esther Roeber: | Next time you’re in line at Starbucks, you can thank me for your $7 coffee. Esther Roeber, Washington. |
| Speaker 12: | You had a great opener and a great closer, and I liked your hand motion for apples and not potatoes. |
| Shima Oliaee: | But not all of them are able to shove aside their feelings and focus. |
| Speaker 13: | Everyone, I think today is especially feeling down because of what it means for our futures, and the fact that they took away our choice as women. And we’re in this program trying to advocate for that and empower women, but it’s hard to do that when our nation is taking away these things. Sorry. |
| Shima Oliaee: | All day I’ve been wondering if any of the girls would address the Dobb’s decision in their self-expression answers. Or if they were wondering, “Can I even do that without harming my chances of winning some money here?” As judges, DYW asks us to separate our political views from our scores, but the girls must know that we’re human and probably have thoughts on the matter. All of that was hanging over me as I entered the Mobile Civic Center. And even as a judge, it felt a little distressing to be going on with the show. But that’s what we’re here to do, so we all stick with the program and try to focus on the task at hand. |
| Announcer: | Hi, thank you. Hello. Good evening. Welcome. Are we ready to dive in? Let’s meet the judges. Shima Oliaee has been recognized at several national awards, including a George Foster Peabody Award. Shima represented her home state of Nevada in our 2001 National Finals. So please welcome Shima Oliaee. |
| Shima Oliaee: | I will say this, Mobile, Alabama really turned out for DYW. All the girls had been written up by the local paper that morning, with advertisements for tickets. And it’s a packed house behind us. |
| Announcer: | We’re so excited to get this evening started, and one of those reasons is that at the end of tonight’s show we will be presenting the first round of preliminary awards and get one step closer to our 65th National Finals tomorrow evening. |
| Shima Oliaee: | We watched the girls do their fitness routines. It looks as brutal and chaotic as I remember. Arizona even accidentally kicks New Mexico in the head. We watch extraordinary talents, flutists and dancers and a speed painter. And then as the evening wears on, the girls finally don their self-expression outfits. One at a time, they walk to the center of the stage and stand in front of the mic. |
| Announcer: | What is something new you learned about yourself during your senior year? |
| Speaker 14: | My senior year taught me many valuable lessons, however the first one that comes to mind is that I am not stuck. I was astounded to find out that I actually could skate without falling. When you feel like life slaps you in the face, just remember that God has a plan for your life. |
| Shima Oliaee: | All night, not one girl says anything about the decision, either for or against. Except … |
| Kirtana Raman…: | I knew from the get-go I was going to talk about abortion. |
| Shima Oliaee: | This is Kirtana Ramanathan from Minnesota, she’s the one who explained the news to Tennessee earlier in the day. When I was at the competition, I remember the issue of abortion access felt really distant from me, like I didn’t think I knew anyone who had had an abortion. But you had a really clear understanding of how you felt. Where did that come from? |
| Kirtana Raman…: | It came from knowing about it from a medical perspective. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Minnesota’s planning to go to med school, so she spent a bunch of time in high school volunteering at a hospital and shadowing a doctor. |
| Kirtana Raman…: | I’ve seen women who come in ecstatic about their pregnancy, I’ve seen women who come in scared. And with all those experiences, I learned that to be forced to bring a child into this world and know what their life is going to be like because you don’t have the financial ability to care for them, I think is a violation of every human right under this planet. |
| Shima Oliaee: | When it’s her turn, Minnesota steps up to the mic and looks out at the crowd. |
| Announcer: | What is something new you learned about yourself during your senior year? |
| Kirtana Raman…: | My heart is beating so fast, I’m sweating, I’m hoping my sweat doesn’t show on the big screen. But I keep telling myself, “If you’re going to have any opportunity to speak to so many women right now in your life, this is it.” And I didn’t give myself another second to think, I just took a breath and I started. |
| In my senior year of high school, I learned that everyone truly has their own unique story, making everyone’s voice important. In light of the new Supreme Court decision this morning, I find this to be more important than ever. I plan to use my voice, shaped by my own unique story, to advocate for the rights of women everywhere. Because the choices that we make define our stories. Kirtana Ramanathan, Minnesota. | |
| Shima Oliaee: | As Minnesota walks off stage, other girls warm up for talent. Soon, it will be Arizona’s turn. She’s going to do a dance routine, but has an injured foot and is feeling insecure. |
| Katelyn Cai: | I’ve thought this was my weakest portion of competition the whole time. People told me that I’m a great technical dancer, but I struggle to emote. |
| Announcer: | Dancing to This Woman’s Work, here is Katelyn Cai from Arizona. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Arizona takes her spot center stage. |
| Katelyn Cai: | I couldn’t continue on as normal. In my brain, there was pre the decision and post the decision. And I was just different after I knew. So I might as well use it to express myself in a way that feels true to me and true to the way that I’m feeling. |
| Shima Oliaee: | I have to say, you could see the feeling as she danced. She looked strong and confident, not at all like someone who has trouble conveying emotion. And there was something else too, something drawn on the palm of her right hand. |
| Katelyn Cai: | I Sharpied just the female gender sign on my hand, more for me than anybody else. |
| Shima Oliaee: | And when she steps forward for her final pose … |
| Katelyn Cai: | I was supposed to have my hands go up and then throw them down to my sides, but I chose to change the routine because of what I had written on my hand. So I end with my hand forward like this and one hand on my heart. |
| Shima Oliaee: | She’s holding the women’s symbol out to the audience, and the look on her face … |
| Katelyn Cai: | I think it was the emotion that I felt, but also just the collective emotion. I’ve never experienced something like that. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Watching from the wings, several of the girls see Arizona’s final pose, and backstage they crowd around her. |
| Speaker 15: | That was so cool, Katelyn. I want to draw it. Can I have another … |
| Shima Oliaee: | One grabs a Sharpie and draws the women’s symbol on her wrist, then another. They start passing the Sharpie around. |
| California: | And then people are lining up. |
| Shima Oliaee: | California. |
| California: | And coming to the Sharpie to get the symbol. |
| Speaker 16: | Are we doing wrists or fists? |
| Salma Barragan (New Mexico): | I was like, “Here’s my hand. Give me the pen. Let me write it right now.” |
| Shima Oliaee: | New Mexico doesn’t think twice about joining in. |
| Salma Barragan: | And all of the girls are passing around the marker and making sure that we all have that symbol in our hand. Except for the ones that are happy about this ruling. |
| Shima Oliaee: | One of the backstage moms tunes into what’s going on. She comes up behind New Mexico, who’s drawing furiously with a Sharpie, and grabs it out of her hand. |
| Speaker 17: | She literally just took it out of someone’s hand. |
| Salma Barragan: | She’s very upset with us, angry. She snatches the Sharpie and just walks away, and we’re like, “Okay. Fuck you.” And then we used eyeliner. |
| Speaker 18: | Honestly, this is what they should be expecting, getting the most political girls around the country in one place. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Once they have the symbol on their wrists, the next question is what do we do now? A handful of girls start forming a plan. |
| Speaker 19: | Right hand? Right hand. Just put your right hand up at the end, show your wrist. Can you draw that for me? Look at me too. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Arizona tells the girls that she and Minnesota will signal when to lift their fists to the audience, once they’re all on stage for the final bow. |
| Katelyn Cai: | When they say, “Goodnight, everyone.” We have to wait until the teleprompter runs dry, because we don’t want to take away from anybody’s- |
| Speaker 20: | Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Be like, “Goodnight.” |
| Katelyn Cai: | Up high, straight up high. Up high. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Across the wings, word reaches Tennessee. |
| Amy Pham: | They’re telling us to draw a women’s symbol on our wrist and before the curtains come down raise your wrist as our way of saying, “We respect women’s rights and we think that Roe vs. Wade being overturned goes against that.” |
| Kaitlyn Ruch: | There were some girls who don’t share my same view on the issue and who were upset. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Montana. |
| Kaitlyn Ruch: | There’s a number of girls back there that I’m talking with that’s like, “No, why would we do that? That sounds really stupid to us. We’re supposed to be on stage as 50 Distinguished Young Women, so let’s not put on any political displays of our own opinions.” |
| Amy Pham: | There was definitely just two different vibes going on backstage. Some people are snickering about it, and some people, like myself, just wanted to stay out of it. |
| Shima Oliaee: | When the girls with their Sharpied symbols reached their spots on the risers, they each look out over the crowd smiling, waiting for the signal. |
| Announcer: | Thank you all for being an amazing audience and supporters of these young women, and we can’t wait to see you back here tomorrow night. See you tomorrow. Thank you and good night. Bye. |
| Shima Oliaee: | The teleprompter runs dry, that’s their cue. Minnesota punches her fist up into the sky, alongside Arizona, Colorado, California and New Mexico. With other girls following suit. |
| Amy Pham: | There are some girls just smiling and waving. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Tennessee. |
| Amy Pham: | And then there are some girls who are standing firm. |
| Katelyn Cai: | I think it was also really powerful to have so many of us do it. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Arizona. |
| Katelyn Cai: | Because it was like, “You can’t take out everybody.” |
| California: | Once we raised our hands, the curtain closed so fast. |
| Shima Oliaee: | California. |
| California: | They were like, “Pull the curtain.” And it just shut on us. |
| Shima Oliaee: | A bunch of people in the crowd are cheering, a bunch are not. |
| Amy Pham: | I didn’t want DYW to turn into a very political thing where we seem … All these girls seem divided. I don’t want to be defined by this one moment. |
| Shima Oliaee: | It’s been a day for Tennessee, just hours ago she was so happy about what great friends they’d all become. She was hoping they could hang on to that, that she could choose both sides, upset nobody. But that’s not always possible. |
| Amy Pham: | Then when it actually comes down to it, I half-raised my wrist, so I probably looked stupid. I should have just done it all the way or kept my hand down. |
| Shima Oliaee: | For the girls who did raise their hands, it’s a victory, however small. |
| Speaker 21: | We may be teenagers, but we are still able to portray a message if we try. If there was any way that I wanted to close tonight, this is the perfect way to do it. To really stand for what I believe in. So it is probably the best moment in this entire experience for sure. I think this was definitely one of my favorite moments of the competition, just because it wasn’t about the competition, it was about something bigger than DYW, bigger than ourselves, even though it wasn’t a massive thousands-of-people protest, it was something. |
| Shima Oliaee: | It might seem like a small thing, but after two weeks of following every rule, having every moment planned, they chose to go off script. None of them knew how it would affect them here, but they did it anyway. |
| Salma Barragan: | It just makes me feel like we’re really Distinguished Young Women. This matters to us. |
| Al Letson: | The competition is almost over. Tomorrow the winner will be chosen by the judges, then she, along with the rest of the girls, will head home and eventually onto college. But what just happened will linger with many of the girls, and even change the trajectory of their lives. |
| Katelyn Cai: | Because of DYW and after DYW, I make a conscious effort to trust people who I am not naturally inclined to trust. |
| Al Letson: | That’s next on Reveal. |
| Al Letson: | From the Center for Investigative Reporting and PRX, this is Reveal. I’m Al Letson. The day after some of the girls protested about the Supreme Court decision, Shima Oliaee and the other judges watched the top eight scorers compete for one last time, and then… |
| Announcer: | Okay, the winner of a $40,000 cash scholarship in our 65th Distinguished Young Woman of America is… |
| Al Letson: | Nope. Uh-uh. Uh-uh. We’re not going to tell you who won. If you want to know, you have to listen to Shima’s six-part podcast series, The Competition. But we are going to tell you what happened after. In the months and years after those two weeks in Mobile, Shima stayed in touch with the girls, even visited some of them. She wanted to know how they were doing in college, and if what happened at the DYW competition changed them. Her first stop was in Knoxville to see… |
| Amy Pham: | Amy Pham of Tennessee. |
| Shima Oliaee: | When I visited Amy, she’d moved away from home and was attending college at the University of Tennessee. |
| Amy Pham: | This is like my best friend. This is an eyelash curler, and it does wonders. So watch- |
| Shima Oliaee: | We were in Amy’s dorm room when she told me about a presentation she was about to give in Sociology 101, on an issue she didn’t know much about when she was at DYW. |
| Amy Pham: | Okay, y’all, today we’re going to be talking about abortion as a social problem, and Ben’s going to take it over with the history- |
| Shima Oliaee: | So, why did you rank abortion number one? |
| Amy Pham: | I think I had the most to say about it. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Why? |
| Amy Pham: | I’ve never thought about abortion before DYW. I had an answer ready in case y’all asked me. But I sound so ignorant, but I was wondering why girls were crying. But then I was like, “Amy, you sound like an idiot, because our rights just got taken away, of course they’re going to cry about it.” And that’s when I was just like, “That does not feel right to me.” And I just had so much to say about it, because there’s a gray area that people aren’t addressing. They’re just one way or the other, pro-life or pro-choice, but it’s more than that. |
| Shima Oliaee: | At the competition, Amy found herself balancing her ambition to be the best and her need to be liked. But she’s starting to think about that a little differently. |
| Amy Pham: | Presidents get hated on, governors get hated on, but these are the decision makers. So when you have haters, that’s how you know you made it. |
| Salma Barragan: | Salma Barragan, New Mexico. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Salma Barragan got a full ride to New Mexico State University. We met up with her at the US-Mexico border at an event called Hugs Not Walls. |
| MUSIC: | [foreign language 00:02:34]. |
| Shima Oliaee: | In November of 2022, the US Government temporarily opened up a border patrol area to allow families to reunite for three minutes at a time. |
| Salma Barragan: | Oh, thank you, mommy. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Salma volunteered there, along with her mom, helping organize and guide families throughout the day. |
| Salma Barragan: | Did you just hear that? |
| Katelyn Cai: | What? |
| Salma Barragan: | Little girl screaming, “Mom,” across the border? That’s crazy. Love you, mommy. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Her mom’s volunteered at this event before, but this is the first time Salma participated. |
| Why did you decide to participate this year? | |
| Salma Barragan: | I’ve gone to protests, but this one was very, very challenging. And I think I was finally able to do it, because I’m a little older now, and I’m a little stronger, and I could probably deal with it a little bit better than I would have those previous years. |
| Shima Oliaee: | At least part of that getting stronger was thanks to DYW. Her mom said those two weeks changed her. |
| Salma’s Mom: | More mature. [Spanish 00:03:38]. |
| Salma Barragan: | Far, by herself. |
| Salma’s Mom: | By herself. [Spanish 00:03:42]. More time. |
| Salma Barragan: | More time. So that trip was the longest I’ve been away from home by myself and the farthest I’ve been away from home. So when I came back, I felt a little bit more prepared for life and I felt a little bit more mature on what I experienced. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Soon after last year’s election, I also called the girl who came up with the idea to Sharpie the women’s symbol on her hand in protest at the Supreme Court decision. She’ll be a senior at Duke University this fall. |
| Katelyn Cai: | Katelyn Cai, Arizona. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Hi. |
| Katelyn Cai: | Hello. Long time, no see. |
| Shima Oliaee: | I know, yes. |
| Katelyn Cai: | How many months has it been? Too many. |
| Shima Oliaee: | It’s been two years. |
| Katelyn Cai: | Yes. |
| Shima Oliaee: | I feel like every time I see you, it’s like a dramatic moment in history. But I guess, maybe that’s every day. |
| On the day after the election, when it was clear Donald Trump had won, I logged onto social media and read a piece she’d written. It kind of floored me. | |
| Katelyn Cai: | I had been up until probably like 1:30-2:00 AM in the morning, couldn’t sleep. And then I just decided to write. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Can you just read to me the question that you posed at the start of the piece? |
| Katelyn Cai: | Sure. By 5:36 AM this morning, Former President Donald J. Trump had enough electoral college votes to be our next President of the United States. By the end of the week, he will also likely win the popular vote, a feat he did not even accomplish in 2016. Why? |
| Shima Oliaee: | And the way that Katelyn answered this question in her piece was unlike anything else I read that morning. She goes on. |
| Katelyn Cai: | The millions who voted for Trump believe they don’t have a place in America. And for all the ads, and canvassing, we didn’t change their minds. They’re not evil and they’re not stupid. They’re human, and they’re my friends, colleagues, and mentors. They believe their promised America is more inclusive, successful, and strong, and they want us to believe in it with them. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Katelyn’s writing struck me as a plea to her peers, but it also felt like message to the girls in the competition, inviting them to reflect on this moment with her. I thought it was brave, braver than even holding up that women’s symbol at DYW. |
| Were you scared at all to share it? | |
| Katelyn Cai: | I know there are people from across the aisle that follow me, and I wanted to write something that showed that I cared about them, but that I maybe didn’t understand them in this moment. And also, was an invitation for them to reach out to me. I wanted to hold myself accountable to understanding people, and I wanted other people to try and do the same. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Kaitlin voted Democrat, but she says the election results made her look at her party in a new light. |
| Katelyn Cai: | The Democratic Party is now perceived as a party of elites. And I don’t think I was an elite growing up. I’m the kid of immigrants. I grew up upper middle class. My parents fought for their American Dream. But just by the virtue of fact that I go to an elite university, I’ve now ascended into this echelon of American society that very few people get access to. And we just think and talk so incredibly differently than the rest of America. |
| Shima Oliaee: | When I’d met Kaitlin at the competition, she was planning to major in public policy. But recently, she decided to ax that and created her own major. |
| Katelyn Cai: | And it’s called Social and Public Trust in the Digital Age. So I’m very interested in the relationships between people, media, and institutions, and what makes us mistrust them. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Were you interested in trust before DYW, and then that DYW just presented you the Roe v. Wade Day? Or did it trigger something? |
| Katelyn Cai: | I think DYW was one of the strongest communities that I had ever experienced, and one that was built very, very fast with a very, very diverse group of people. Because of DYW, and after DYW, I make a conscious effort to trust people who I am not naturally inclined to trust. |
| And sure, sometimes I’ve gotten burned, but I also have built some really valuable, incredible relationships. And I think that allows me to then be able to trust in the future of the country, trust in these bigger institutions, trust in systems, because I practice it on the day-to-day. And these next four years, whether or not you voted for Donald Trump, are going to be very volatile. And trust doesn’t mean you don’t hold people accountable, or that you take things lying down. But trust is extending an olive branch. It’s just giving people the chance to prove themselves. It’s going to be really easy to be cynical and nihilistic, but the world is a better place when we’re not. | |
| Shima Oliaee: | Thank you for trusting me to get on this call. [inaudible 00:08:57]. |
| Katelyn Cai: | Happy to. |
| Shima Oliaee: | Oh my God, yeah, reunion. Oh, my God. |
| At the start of my second trip to Mobile, this time as a grown woman, I didn’t know what to expect. I knew that the competition asked the girls, “As teenagers, what do you stand for?” But what happened in 2022, woke up the girls in ways no one could predict. And seeing what they’re doing with their lives helps me see our country in a way that all the books, and articles, and news reports never could. To Katelyn, and Salma, and Amy, and all the girls of DYW, thank you, for reminding me, we can grow up, we can even change, and the journey can be joyful. | |
| DYW participants: | Oh, [inaudible 00:09:50]. |
| Oh, there’s so many tears. | |
| Dude, I never cry. This is embarrassing. | |
| I was just saying that I never had that many friends during high school. And I came here, I just got best friends. | |
| Isabelle, I’m going to bombard you. | |
| I’m so much sadder leaving here than I ever did my high school graduation. I just feel so valued here. | |
| Okay, one last thing before I go. | |
| Music: | La, la, la, la. |
| La, la, la, la, Elmo’s world. | |
| DYW participants: | Your mom, ma, ma, ma, ma, mom. [Inaudible 00:10:27]. |
| When you were about to say where you went to college, I was straight about to say… | |
| Al Letson: | That story was from Shima Oliaee, reporter, producer, and host of the six-part series, The Competition, from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, in collaboration with Shirazad Productions. You can find the full series wherever you get your podcasts. The entire show is a roll coaster ride. |
| From The Competition, thanks to senior producers Courtney Harrell, Justine Daum, Clare Chambers, Stephanie Ouaknine, associate producer Mari Orozco, editor Maddy Sprung-Keyser, and senior engineer Davy Sumner. | |
| This week’s episode was produced by Anayansi Diaz-Cortez. Taki Telonidis edited the show. Our production manager is the amazing Zulema Cobb. Score and sound design by Davy Sumner and Sarah Kinsley. Additional music by the dynamic duo, Jay Breezy, Mr. Jim Briggs, and Fernando, my man yo, Arruda. Our interim executive producers are Brett Myers and Taki Telonidis. Our theme music is by Comorado Lightning. | |
| Support for Reveal’s provided by the Reva and David Logan Foundation, the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, the Jonathan Logan Family Foundation, the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, the Park Foundation, the Schmidt Family Foundation, and the Hellman Foundation. Support for Reveal is also provided by you, our listeners. We are a co-production of the Center For Investigative Reporting and PRX. | |
| I’m Al Letson, and remember, there is always more to the story. |